[of-dev] free VS2011 will be crippled

Andreas Müller andreas at nanikawa.com
Fri May 25 05:31:21 PDT 2012


I just want to quickly add that people were using VS for hobby projects (as
in the forums of gamedev.net devmaster.net) long before there was a free
version available.

/A

On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Pierre Proske <pierre at digitalstar.net>wrote:

> Yes good point - folder actions are pretty crap in CB.
>
> Beginner vs pro is an interesting argument. I wonder if Cinder would
> continue to support VS. My guess is that they would, because I feel they
> are marketing themselves to the "Pro" community...
>
>
>
>
>
> On 25/05/12 21:54, Matthew Gingold wrote:
>
>> This is pretty interesting - I've been having a lot of conversations at
>> Ars
>> about CB vs VS over the past couple of weeks...
>>
>> As Pierre will probably know a lot of the dev for windows here is done
>> with
>> VS - mostly I think because of the debugger tools...
>>
>> I generally prefer CB ->  I agree with P's comments about preferences etc,
>> although I HATE the way that folders/files are dealt with in CB (why, oh
>> why
>> can't I multi-click-select files to delete or drag to a folder?!)...it
>> makes
>> handling big projects very tedious.
>>
>> However, I am finding that for many of my applications - which are quite
>> heavy on video and CV - that gcc is compiling more efficient code than
>> cl...
>>
>> In many ways dropping VS would make supporting windows more viable - it's
>> quite a task to cross-compile for two IDE's/compilers every time you want
>> to
>> add a feature/addon for OF - in fact it's like supporting two different
>> platforms.
>>
>> But I think we might lose a lot of users - not so much in the 'beginner'
>> world, but definitely in the more 'pro'/'application' developer world,
>> where
>> library integration and debug tools push many dev's to use VS...
>>
>> I'd also point out that, although the economy of scale is very different,
>> Xcode is not free either (I know I know $4.99 vs $500)...but Apple ain't
>> no
>> angel in my opinion...remember it's $100 per year to develop IOS
>> apps...cheaper, but more relentless in my opinion...so not supporting an
>> IDE
>> because you have to pay for it is not such a solid reason - who is to say
>> that Apple will not hike the price of being a developer even more? Would
>> we
>> only support linux CB or command-line in that case?
>>
>> My two cents,
>> M
>>
>>
>> On 25/05/12 1:27 PM, "Pierre Proske"<pierre at digitalstar.net**>  wrote:
>>
>>  Just curious Elliot,
>>>
>>> What is it that you dislike so much about Codeblocks?
>>> I've used VS extensively, in fact I'm using it for a project at the
>>> moment and to be honest I do like some the autocompletion features and
>>> the debugger, but I don't feel any great pain going over to CB.
>>> CB is much simpler and cleaner in comparison to VS and XCode. You rarely
>>> have to spend hours wrangling with weird preferences and hidden options
>>> to get things going ( both of which I've had to do with the previous two
>>> on the admittedly rare but very frustrating occasion).
>>>
>>> Photoshop vs Gimp is a whole other argument.
>>> Photoshop is definitely superior to Gimp, hands down. But 95% of the
>>> time I'm using Photoshop for something Gimp would do just as easily. And
>>> Gimp loads way faster than photoshop.
>>>
>>> Not trying to start a debate, just like to hear your opinion.
>>>
>>> p.
>>>
>>> For beginners I would say its preferable.
>>>
>>> On 25/05/12 19:46, Elliot Woods wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dropping support for VS11-free is inevitable as it doesn't support
>>>> OpenGL
>>>>
>>>> VS11 standard is $500
>>>>
>>>> Code::Blocks is ... sigh. Depressing
>>>>
>>>> I think more likely the changes to the windows c++ community caused by
>>>> this
>>>> decision will likely affect the ecosystem of free IDE's. Hopefully tothe
>>>> point of viable alternatives. I just don't feel like trading in
>>>> Photoshop for
>>>> gimp :( yet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Elliot
>>>>
>>>> Sent by touchscreen
>>>>
>>>> On 25 May 2012, at 09:57, Christoph Buchner<bilderbuchi at phononoia.**at<bilderbuchi at phononoia.at>>
>>>>   wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  I think what it means in any case is that we should make sure that
>>>>> developing with free IDEs (e.g. Codeblocks, Eclipse) on Windows is
>>>>> fully
>>>>> supported in OF, so that people who don't want to shell out 500$ for
>>>>> an IDE
>>>>> are not impeded, i.e. there's no _need_ to get VS11 to be able to use
>>>>> OF to
>>>>> its full potential.
>>>>> In light of this, I think it's important to think about how to handle
>>>>> things
>>>>> like C++11 features, which apparently will not be available in the
>>>>> VS11 free
>>>>> edition: If we don't want to hold back the rest of OF (on all other
>>>>> OSes)
>>>>> because we can't use these features with VS11-free, what remains exept
>>>>> dropping support for VS11-free, and offering proper alternatives?
>>>>>
>>>>> greets,
>>>>> christoph
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri 25 May 2012 10:33:46 AM CEST, Elliot Woods wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hmm... Let's see how this works out
>>>>>> I think we should drop VS if people stop using it, not because we
>>>>>> think
>>>>>> people might.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or is this in protest for free software?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apple computers cost considerably more than PC's, blah blah.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cash ain't no king
>>>>>> Elliot
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent by touchscreen
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25 May 2012, at 06:06, Joshua Noble<joshuajnoble at gmail.com>
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  This is baffling and making me a bit sad as I really like Visual
>>>>>>> Studio as a development IDE. Sigh.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 9:36 PM, Kyle McDonald<kyle at kylemcdonald.net
>>>>>>> **>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> one minor clarification: the product in question "visual studio 11"
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> "visual studio 2011" :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Friday, May 25, 2012 at 12:29 AM, Kyle McDonald wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  this story has been evolving today:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://arstechnica.com/**information-technology/2012/**
>>>>>>>>> 05/no-cost-desktop-so<http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/05/no-cost-desktop-so>
>>>>>>>>> ftware-development-is-dead-on-**windows-8/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> but here's the original post from last week:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://blogs.msdn.com/b/**visualstudio/archive/2012/05/**
>>>>>>>>> 18/a-look-ahead-at<https://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2012/05/18/a-look-ahead-at>
>>>>>>>>> -the-visual-studio-11-product-**lineup-and-platform-support.**aspx
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the idea is that microsoft wants developers to focus on creating
>>>>>>>>> windows
>>>>>>>>> 8 "metro" apps, which is a sort of "limited" app that can be
>>>>>>>>> deployed
>>>>>>>>> both on the desktop and the windows phone, and can be sold in
>>>>>>>>> microsoft's app store (metro doesn't support opengl, so no
>>>>>>>>> OF+metro).
>>>>>>>>> they're going to make the free version of visual studio only
>>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>>> metro app development, whereas the real deal will be $500.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> VS2010 should still work for a bit, but if microsoft doesn't change
>>>>>>>>> their mind about this it makes me think we should drop support for
>>>>>>>>> VS,
>>>>>>>>> and focus on mingw + c::b on windows.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> kyle
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> joshua noble
>>>>>>> http://thefactoryfactory.com
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